Origin of Cholas- Tamil Myth

Cholas are said to be the three dynasties who ruled Tamil nadu from ancient times, But all three dynasties origin remain a question. Let us see the cholas origin.

Sora
The etymology of the word Chola has been agreed upon by many historians and linguists to be derived from the Tamil word Sora or Chora. Moreover, numerous inscriptions confirm that the name of the Dynasty was Sora but pronounced today as Chola(sanskrit).

kalvar caste
Cholas belong to kalvar caste, Kalvar are said to be invaders in sangam literatures better known as kalabhras. The kalvar people still live around tanjor. So are the Cholas natives of Tamil nadu.

chalukya cholas
The Eastern Chalukyas ruled a kingdom in Vengi (eastern Andhra Pradesh) from about 625 until 1070, Then they took over the chola kingdom and dynasty. Earlier three generations of Eastern Chalukyan prince have married chola princess. So the question is how they did not face any resistance. In this background Rajendra Chalukya accended chola throne as Kulothunga chola I , thus annexing chola empire to Eastern chalukya empire and there again was no resistance eventhough Virarajendra died and his son and successor Adhirajendra was assassinated. That clearly caste doubts on cholas as any different from chalukya stock.

Chalukya author Bilhana gives a version of the background to Athirajendra’s troubles in his Vikramankadeva Charita.
'On hearing news of trouble and revolt in the Chola country following the emperor’s death, Vikramaditya, immediately marched to Kanchipuram to quell troubles there. Then he went to Gangaikonda Cholapuram, destroyed the forces of the enemy and installed the prince (Athirajendra) on the throne. After spending a month in the Chola capital, Vikramaditya apparently satisfied that peace was restored, returned to his country. '

Vikramaditya VI has come to chola country and he is called Kannadasandhivigrahi as said by his kannada inscription at the Ranganatha Swami Temple, Srirangam as peacemaker between fighting cousins.

Udayaditya, Choda wrote a treatise Udayadityalankaram in Kannada, 75 stanzas on the art of Poetry based on Dandin Kavyadarsa

And they never combined with pandyas and after accession Rajendra chalukya defeated pandyas and annexed the whole of tamil nadu. This raises the question whether chola are kannada stock.

Cholas and Prakrit.
All the Inscriptions are in prakrit, not in tamil. That has to be noted. If they are Tamil rulers then what was the hesitancy in promoting tamil.

Telugu choda
We do not know the origin of Cholas dynasty,but we know the origin of Telugu cholas pronounced Chodas from 5th century AD onwards. We have inscriptions on the following telugu dynasties who were feudataries of Chalukyas. The chodas trace their decent to Ikshavakus , who trace their origin to Manu, the cholas also trace their origin to Manu, Manu Needhi Cholan
  • Velanati Chodas ( Ruled the Velanadu Region Current E.G,W.G and Krishna Districts)
  • Renati Chodas (Ruled the Renadu Regions Current Cuddapah, Kurnool Regions)
  • Pottapi Chodas (Ruled the Renadu Regions Current Cuddapah, Chittor Districts)
  • Konidena Chodas (Ruled the Palanadu region Current Guntur, Prakasam Districts)
  • Nannuru Chodas (Ruled the Pakanadu region Current Anantapur District)
  • Nellore Chodas (Ruled the Nellore,Chittor, Chengalpeta and Cuddapah Regions)
    So the chola dyansty who started under 8th century can also have origin from above telugu cholas. Most apt description would be cholas are telugus , not tamil.

    But Rajendra chola came to help Eastern chalukya king Danarnava against Telugu choda king jata choda bhima(Amma II brother in law). Later after Kulothunga I acended throne as chola king, they shifted loyalty to Chola kings.

    Muttaraiyar
    Before Cholas the area round about Tanjavur was under the sway of a dynasty of chieftains known as the Muttaraiyar whose inscriptions are found at Sendalai and Niyamam, and who seem to have ruled either independently or as vassals of the Pallavas.   The Muttaraiyar believed to be ruled from 655AD to 860AD.  The city name " Thanjaur" seems to be derived from the name of a Mutharayar king "Thananjay" or "Dhananjaya".

         Perumbidugu Muttaraiyan alias Kuvavan Maran (c. CE 655-c.680)
        Ilangovadiyariyan alias Maran Paramesvaran (c A.D. 680-c.705)
        Perumbidugu Muttaraiyan II alias Suvaran Maran (c. CE 705-c.745)
        Videlvidugu Vilupperadi-Araisan alias Sattan Maran (c.A.C. 745-c.770)
        Marppidugu alias Peradiaraiyan (c. CE 770-791)
        Videlvidugu Muttaraiyan alias Kuvan Sattan (c. CE 791-c.826)
        Sattan Paliyili (c. CE 826-c.851)

    Tradition says that the muttaraiyar came from North. We find Renati cholas ruling the kadapa region around 600 AD(We have First full length Telugu Inscription). Renati cholas being feudatories of Pulakesi, could have got the kingdom in south during pulakesin raid in tamil nadu. We have Ayyavole 500 (Merchant Guild from Aihole ) using pudukottai  as one of their bases. So may be Muttaraiyar were installed in Tanjore by Pulakesi II. There is a kannada inscription in Kodumbalur.

    The rule of Muttaryaiyar was ended by Vijayalaya chola, who established the chola dynasty.  Vijayala Chola conquered Thanjavur from Elango Mutharayar who was the final ruler of Mutharaiyar dynasty. It is said that in the year A.D.852 Vijayalaya Chola waged war with the Muttaraiyar king Sattan Paliyilli (A.D.826-852) in the neighbouring east, and captured his territory of Thanjavur. While Vijayalaya Chola was supported by Pallava , the Muttaraiyan chief was supported by Pandya. Making use of the opportunity during a war between Pandyas and Pallavas, Vijayalaya having matrimonial relations with cheras captured Thanjavur. After being replaced by  cholas, muttaraiyar ruled as Chola vassals in the same region.

    Now where was vijayalaya from, how did vijayalaya got an army to defeat  a dynasty entrenched in the region.  The answer is,  he is from another branch from the same mutturaiyar family.  First temple work of Vijayalaya was rebuilding a mutturaiyar temple later known as vijaya cholewaram. Both Mutturaiyar and cholas worship Angamma (Ankalamma) devi. Family feud exploited by Pallavas and pandyas. The reason we don't see any swearing from each other. Thus the Chola line of Mutturaiyar comes into place.

    Chola decended from Muttaraiyar and Muttaraiyar decended from Telugu Chodas.  Dravidian scholars describe muttaraiyar as kalvar or kalabhra and dismiss them as uncivilized.

    Pallava origin
    Killivalavan was a chola king mentioned in Sangam Literature, and of a period close to that of Nedunkilli and Nalankilli , in the Purananuru and Agananuru.The etymology of Killi is kilai (Branch in Tamil)

    The word Pallava means branch in Sanskrit, denoting that they are a later offshoot (Kilai-> Branch(tamil)) of Chutus (satkarnis).Pallava is rendered as Tondaiyar in the Tamil language. The Pallava kings at several places are called Thondamans or Thondaiyarkon.The territory of the Pallavas was known as Tundaka Visaya or Tundaka Rashtra.(tundaka - Branch) The Sanskrit meaning of Pallava is Kilai The Tamil Thondai means the same, It shows that Pallavas are descendants (Kilay or Pirivu) of Chutus(satakarnis).

    Karnata dynasties Chalukyas and Rastrakutas call themselves Vallabhas and Pallava also from Karnata have called themselves vallabhas in some places, which translates to valavan in Tamil.

    If we take the killi -> Kilai and Pallava -> kilai and vallabha -> valavan

    We have killi valvan and it shows that killi valavan is generic term applied to pallava vallabha.

    After the pallavas revenge against pulikesin II, Ganga king who had marital relations with chalukyas defeated the pallavas and chased them out of kanchi. So the pallavas shifted themselves to a place called Kaduvetti, which is now in chola country. Many of their inscriptions are from kaduveti. Only after this time we see cholas rising. Cholas might have marital relations with pallavas and  putting killivalavan as one of their ancestors, shows their ancestors are  pllavas. Until Nirputunga pallava cornation ,they were feudatories of pallavas.
    This also solves myth Pallavas are not mentioned in Sangam literature ,so sangam literature has to be dated before pallavas.

    Others
    There is no tiger in chola country ,but their emblem is Tiger has to be noted, which show they are from outside Chola region.

    Chola kingdom fell despite efforts to propup their proxy administration by Hoysalas of Halebidu against Pandyas.

    Bengali 's
    The Following is a interesting take from Bengali community. Some Sangam works talks about five tribes who settled in Tamil Nadu. These are Naga tribes from north who moved down to south.the
    • VaeLir - the farmers,
    • Mazhavar - the hill people who gather hill products, and the traders
    • Naagar - people in charge of border security, who guarded the city wall and distant fortresses .
    • Kadambar - people who thrive on forests
    • Thiraiyar - the seafarers.
    Pallavas are said to be sect of Thiraiyar. Later sub sects arose and one of the important sects is MaRavar( warriors, conquerors and rulers; including the major Tamil dynasties of Cheras, Cholas and Pandyas. The Following Paragraph is bengali take on the above subject.

    Bengali's say many Naga-worshipping tribes proceeded from Bengal as well as from other parts of Northern India to establish their supremacy in Tamil Nadu. Of these tribes, the Marans, the Cheras and the Pangala Thiraiyar interest us most. The Cheras, it is stated, proceeded to Southern India from the north-west of Pangala or Bengal and established the "Chera" kingdom of much historical note. It is significant that the Cheras are mentioned in the old Brahmin literature as occupying the eastern tract of the Magadba country. As to the Marans, who are said to have been the neighbours of the Cheras in Northern India, it is equally important to note, that the Pandya kings claim to be of Maran descent. The Marans, who were also called Maravars, are reported to have been a very fierce and warlike people, and that they worshipped the goddess Kali on the top-knot of whose hair stood an infuriated cobra snake. The Pangala Thiraiyars are recorded as the latest immigrants, and it is narrated of them, that they proceeded from the sea coast of Bengal by boat and founded the Chola kingdom at Kanchi. As the phrase Pangala or Bangala Thiraiyar is equivalent to (Tlra-Vanga), we can assert un- hesitatingly, that these people had received Aryan influence in Bengal before they left for the Madras coast.

    So the question is who are cholas , From the above points they are not definitely tamils, they are either Telugu or kannada stock.

    Related Posts
    Date of Karikala
    Myth of Kallanai by Karikalan
    Myth of Tamil Sangam
    Kalabhra Interruption
    Pallava Origin
    Ikshvaku origin

    60 comments:

    1. I would strongly recommend you to visit the temples in Thanjavur district, Thiruvarur districts to see the chola inscriptions in Tamil

      You might want to visit Dharasuram, Pattieswaram (Chola Kingdoms treasury) to understand the language which was used by cholas

      Your conclusion on Chola being a Kannada or telugu is absolutely wrong

      ReplyDelete
    2. Chalukyas in Andhra patronised telugu in Andhra , that does not mean they are telugu.

      Both the temples you have mentioned are 10-12th century that is after they are well entrenched in tamil nadu. Have you found anything in pre 10th century temples, they are mainly prakrit / Sanskrit.

      ReplyDelete
    3. Elango Arulmozhi VarmanDecember 30, 2008 at 7:05 PM

      You are trying to make cholas are non tamil. You please visit all the temples in tamilnadu. You can find tamil inscriptions in Pasupatheeswara temple in Karur by cholas which is 1500 years old. There they have mentioned about a chola king "Pugazh cholar".
      Why most of the chola temple inscriptions are in sanskrit?
      Because of Brahminism. Dont try to make the cholas are outsiders.
      Most of the tamil Kings who are all belongs to the three ancient tamil dyansties are not only the kings but also tamil scholars. They have done lot to tamil literature. First of all, you should know the imperial chola line started by "Vijayala chola" is from uraiyur, ancient capital of chola dynasty.
      I am not saying he is direct descendant of Karikala chola, but he is descendant of early cholas.

      ReplyDelete
    4. Pasupatheeswara temple is built during Rajendra Chola(11th century AD), you find inscriptions of him and later cholas. How you came with date of 1500 years old , i dont know because you told chola line started with vijayalaya chola (848- 871AD). For all the claims you make kindly provide evidences

      ReplyDelete
    5. you know rajendra chola & his father raja raja-I were not only great warriors but also great patrons of tamil and by themselves great literates in tamil and pandya rulers were the founders of tamil sangam so claiming these clans as non tamils were wrong,have any doubt please visit temples in tamilnadu and read the inscriptions there

      ReplyDelete
    6. Dear Gautam
      All kings like , chalukyas, Hoysalas, Vijaynagar rulers, Nayaks partronised tamil when they were ruling tamil nadu. It does not mean they are Tamils. Panydas and Cholas partronised Sanskrit. It does not mean their mother tongue is sanskrit.

      Your logic is not good. You have any epigrahical or numismatic to prove cholas have tamil kindly provide. Cholas trace their manu, sibi and so on , who are not tamils.

      As far as Myth of Tamil Sangam visit my post.

      http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-tamil-sangams.html

      ReplyDelete
    7. We have no clue on when the ancient Tamil Language came into use. The current language in use probably has no resemblance to the ancient classical language. The script was different.

      Just because tigers are only present in the present day Sunderbans, does it in any way mean that the tigers couldn't have been anywhere else in mainland India ???

      You can still find Chola inscriptions on countless temple walls in and around Tamil Nadu and Srilanka.
      Get back to the times of Karikala Chola ... When was the great Tiruvanaikaval temple built ???
      Chola empire under Raja Raja and Rajendra was the greatest empire in India ... Visit Gangaikonda Cholapuram, Darasuram, Tanore Big temple, Chidambaram temple, tiruvanamalai temple .. and many more ... I feel embarrassed when you claim them as Bengalis, Kannadas and Telugus .. The mighty Chola empire has left the Tamil essence in Singapore, Malaysia etc etc ... and needs no one to prove their linguistic trace ...

      ReplyDelete
    8. The present Tamil Language has nothing to do with ancient classics. The Ancient Classics are in ancient Malayalam, which trace their origin to Tulu.

      Tell me where Tigers are present in Tamil Nadu in Sangam literature.

      Building cave temples and Rock Cut temples started with Mahendravarman I (600 - 630 CE). There is no Dravidian Temple structures earlier than 7th century AD in Tamil Nadu, All the temples before 700AD are Cave temples or rock cut temples in Tamil Nadu.
      So when the temple is itself not there, there is no question of Inscriptions on them dating before that. So all the Chola inscriptions are post Pallava.

      Kochenga Date
      Kochenga's parents Subhadeva and Kamalavati prayed to Nataraja of Chidambaram temple for a male successor as per Sangam Literature. So Kochenga is post Nataraja Temple.

      Earliest Historical reference to Nataraja Temple is Nandivarma pallavamalla (732-796 CE) about his father Hiranyavarma building Nataraja Temple at Chidambaram.

      Conclusion
      When Kochengan referred in sangam literature of Building the temple is born after their parents worshipped in Nataraja temple ,which was built during Pallava times.

      So the king Kochenga has to be post pallava, so Tiruvanaikaval temple and 77 others built by Kochenga has to be post pallava and the sangam literature is also post pallava.

      I think that is enough explanation for some over ambitious dating of the Kochenga Chola.

      ReplyDelete
    9. NO CONTRAVERCY

      CHOLA ARE RULED ALL OVER INDIA ONCE UPON A TIME.......

      CHOLA ARE COMMING FROM KUMARI THE LOST LAND NOW UNDER IN INDIAN OCEAN..

      THE KALAVAR ARE NOW CALLED AS KALLAR
      IN TAMILNADU

      ReplyDelete
    10. Cholas ruled all over the time once, when?
      Raids dont qualify as ruling the place

      So cholas are from Kumarikandam, Even Tamil literatures don't says that and by the by what happened to Indus valley origin?

      We dont have to be struck in the stories created by British in the past 200 years.

      Kalki (with his undeniable genius) has elevated a chola clan of warring chieftains to the level of sage-kings, which they were not. This is similar to what happened to Ma.Po.Si who elevated a minor satrap called Kattabommu Nayakkan to a major hero known as Veerapandiya Kattabomman.

      In both these cases, popular media has re-written minor characters into people they never were.

      ReplyDelete
    11. dear modasattva,
      your writing is interesting and leaves a lot to ponder.
      all of us are from the same community of 'human species' can be the conclusion.

      please keep writing
      regards,
      k r g

      ReplyDelete
    12. Your controversy is very funny my friend. And the Etymology of killivalavan is really too stupid.
      Killi and kilai are not related by meaning. Killi means pinch or little or aquiring, kilai means branch as you said.
      Pallavas in some places call themselves as Malla not vallabhas. And by the way tell me who is pallava vallabha.
      There is no body in history called pallava vallabha. And Killi valavan is not related to pallavas as the pallava dynasty
      starts during 4th century and the Killi valavan was early cholas as his capiral was Uraiyur. Which is during around first century.
      There is 3-4 centuries time gap between killi valavan and Pallavas.

      The relationship of cholas with Bengalis are absolutely root less.

      And the chola incriptions are not in prakrit they are in Grantha and Vatteluthu tamil words. Vatteluthu is still in use, the cholas
      vatteluthu rock inscriptions are same as present tamil letters. Even I can read most of them easily, without any assistance.
      And for your information Tamil cannot be written in prakrit as Prakrit is Indo-Aryan Language not a dravidian language.

      The early cholas are dated to 3rd century BC, killivalavan is dated to first century. And Old Kannada is dated only to 6th century.
      How could the those killivalavan and karikalan be talking kannada.

      Do you know one thing ? In Turkish language chol means Desert. The location of Harappa is located near deserts, near present day Cholisthan.
      And there is a theory that Dravidians came from Harappa. Somebody who comes from desert may be called as Chola. If this is true Cholas are dravidians.

      If the Cholas are from bengal, why they didnt try to go back or invade their supposed mother land Bengal. Rajendra Chola was the only chola invaded bengal.
      That too he marched through bengal as its in the path to Sri vijaya. Which was his destiny to conquer. No cholas liked to conquer bengal.


      And as maya said Kalavar are now Kallars in Tamilnadu. And Raja raja chola his descendents are not Kallars , they are thevars.

      Motta Sattva are you in any dream ? Thulu is spoken from 15th century. And Malayalam is spoken from the 6th century, how can you say the
      ancient classics are in Malayalam and Thulu. And Ofcource Pallavas inspired Cholas to build temples, but Cholas built dams a long before Pallavas.
      Raja raja cholan was inspired by kailasanadhar temple of kanchipuram to build the Bhrahadeeswarar temple at Tanjavur.
      But karilala chola built a big dam called Kallanai in Tamilnadu. Which is the oldest water regulatory structure in the world still in use.
      Which was pre Pallavas. Are you telling no inscriptions would be written on the whole big dam ? Guess what language a tamil Chola
      King would have used to write anything he wants to write on a big dam that he built. is it English or Hindi ? Are you still saying all the chola's tamil inscriptions are post pallavas ?
      Does Chola must come from Indus Valley or Kumari kandam ? Are you saying the first chola king born as a king not a common man of other dynasty like pandyan dynasty and became a king ?
      Be reasonable and responsible on your blogs guys. Your assumptions are very silly. And dont create useless controversies on issues which are already resolved.

      ReplyDelete
    13. From all your previous posts that I have read you are just an adament and arrogant who just wants to prove your point. First do a thorough research and then comment about tamil literature and Cholas. First of all calling ancient classics as malaylam itself shows your ignorance. Neither the tamil, even malayali or any other historian will agree on that for, origins of malaylam itself is from tamil which is definitely not what is spoken in tamil nadu. But instead it is called sen-tamil, probably one you hear in most news channels could be closer to it or the sri-lankan tamil resembles most with it. By the way indus valley was not origin of indians it is also known fact. Indians predate that clearly so its your aryan bullshit. Tamil originated from now sunken landmass Kumari. Please go and visit all temples and refer to classics Like Kallikottai. the very word Cholas and pandyas are classical tamil. And as for your analogy of flag. Do I have to remind you Mauryan flag was a lion. Now please dont tell me they came from gujarat or Africa. Where are lions in Bihar or afghanistan or pakistan, in case assuming chanakya took tigers there??

      ReplyDelete
    14. This will give you some enlightment about human migration.
      http://www.onthewing.org/user/Sci_Journey%20of%20Man.pdf
      Thats the origin of tamils.

      ReplyDelete
    15. @kirubasankar,
      So you disagree, but do you give any evidence in support of your theories? NO . That is the truth. It is just stuff of legends. There is one Chola kingdom, which started with Vijayalaya chola as feudataries of Pallava, none else.

      Killi -> pinch, then what is the etymology of pinch in tamil.

      Vallabha is what Pallava call themselves. Ask them. They are Pallava Vallabha. read history before commenting.

      Karikala mentioned is Aditya Karikala and his successors, all of them have surname Karikala. The Name Aditya denotes he was the first independent king. If there was any independent king before Karikala, he would not have taken surname Aditya then. Show me one inscription talking about Karikala before Aditya Karikala.

      How did you get three to four centuries in time between Killivalavan and Pallava, did you have a dream. Just read Purananooru article and date of Karikala article

      Let me introduce Vetteluthu. Vetteluthu is just what is written on rocks as aginst kol eluthu written with stick on scriptures. They are all in kadamba script until pallavas started writing in tamil with granta script, which was then exclusively used for sanskrit.

      old Kannada is dated to sixth century AD? what were they talking before that. According to your theory, All of them got together one day they decided, let us talk in old Kannada? Kirubasankar your are a funny guy. Kannada words have been found consistently in inscriptions from maurya , satavahana etc. Kannada words have been even in Greek plays before Christian era. There is a full length inscription in Kannada in 432AD. Full length Tamil inscriptions started in 6th century AD. That means according to your logic, Tamil originated in 6th century AD.

      Tamil shares 90% of words with Sanskrit. you seem to forget that before talking about Turkish. Tamils from Indus valley is just theory, with available material everyone can be proved they are from Indus valley, not just Tamil.

      why Most of the viewers for articles on Tamil kings come to them, while searching for their caste

      Tulu and Malayalam inscriptions are found from 8th century onwards, you don't even know much about Tamil, you have started talking about Kannada, Tulu and Malayalam.

      Read my article on Kallanai, Kallanai is a hoax.

      Kirubasankar, you have provided nothing to prove Chola is a Tamil dynasty. I remain unconvinced as before.

      ReplyDelete
    16. @sudharshan

      It has been accepted by Tamil Experts that Sangam literature is closer to present day Malayalam, then in present day Tamil. Malayalam retains most of the words of Sangam literature compared to Tamil. Sangam literature was composed in Chera country don't forget.

      Read myth of Aryan invasion article before commenting on Aryan theories.

      For Kumarikandam read Myth of Lemuria and Kumarikandam article before commenting. Tamil literature does not support Kumarikandam. It is christian propaganda during British times.

      Ya I have read about these funny theories of Red Tamil, Green Tamil etc. What has this got to do with Chola origin.

      Lion in Mauryan flag, what is Mauryan flag. You mean Mauryan Emblems, that can be explained, not an issue. But Tiger in Chola is not explained.

      Your PDF did not open.

      Read Tamil History before commenting. You are easily convinced by Tamil propaganda because you are Tamil. Not me.

      Malayalam origin is from Tulu, wait for my article.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Kumari Kandam is not a myth my friend.. Still there are evidences tat a 10000 years old city was existed in Tamil Nadu. The thing is you Aryans, dont want to accept the greatness of Dravidians and making efforts to hide the real history..

        Delete
      2. Why talk about kumarikandam here. I am not going to publish one more irrelavant comment in any topic.

        I am a dravidian and there is no kumari kandam, I think that will solve your dilemmas.

        Why does not this 10000 year old city is not attested by ASI

        Delete
    17. Malayalam origin is clearly Tamil and I have clearly mentioned that the modern tamil spoken today is not the classical tamil and by the way where does this Aryan theory come from. I never mentioned a word about Aryan. So why are you pulling in that baseless theory. Again talking about your blog of Kumarikandam it is as baseless as this one. I speak plain facts. You have no evidences to claim your argument. Give one and then speak. Dont speak as if tamilians know nothing about their history. Keep that ideas with you. As for that link it clearly says Homo sapiens before 50000 years moved to australia via India through two sucessive migration. One through gujarat which became as we hear cambian civilization and that was cradle of civilization all over north and other through Tamil Nadu and became Kumari. Pandyas are Meenavars and worshipped Matsya not your snakehead gods. Migrations existed agreed, I dont deny that. There are tribes in south that trace origins to north. They fused within the kingdoms and in return there are traces of southern elements in northern kingdoms like the Bhil Meenas. One piece of advice, dont limit your research to 7th century AD just because thats when all kingdoms' names like Pallavas etc came into prominence. You will never get your real answers for that period saw heavy migration of warriors within India. Why? Fear of Arab Invasion, especially after seeing parsi refugees to what happened to their country. Rajasthan today was full of warriors from almost every nuke and corner of India prepared for a stand. And there are evidences to Pandyas among the rajput chiefs. Another piece of advice, also remember India has tendency to accept other ideas and fuse into it and neither are vanquished killed but instead they chose to fight for the victors i.e India was sucessful in gaining their loyalty so no need to execute them. Thus making it complex to study etymology of people. This hold not only for foreign invaders but also people within. Dont simply blame people for propaganda like a sore loser. I am not a DMK inspired fanatic. Come to life man!!

      ReplyDelete
    18. Here again the same link...there was a mistake in what I sent before...
      http://www.onthewing.org/user/Sci_Journey of Man.pdf
      Thats the origin of tamils.
      http://drs.nio.org/drs/bitstream/2264/2065/2/Puratattva_28_84.pdf
      Also try google cambian civilization or better this link...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_archaeology_in_the_Gulf_of_Cambay

      ReplyDelete
    19. Do I also have to remind you that Silappadikaram considered tamil literary work not any other language. It clearly talks about Poompuhar as part of Chola desam and she goes to the court of Pandyan king. Now dont go on and say that they were not tamils. Telugu and Kannada trace origins to Satvahanas was formed only after influence of Mauryas with infusion of Pali, Prakrit more than it and of course Sanskrit into old tamil. All Mauryan edicts speak of Cholas and Pandyas as neighbours to it. Refer to Buddist Scriptures before trying to impose your ideas man. Your theory of Telugu,Kannada and wait Bengali origin fails!! Man bengalis and tamil?? How man?? Tamil(Again Sentamil not modern tamil) is the oldest language in India.
      Pallavas may be Andhra offshoots but not Cholas , Pandyas and Cheras. They are 3 great tamil dynasties. Also Sangam orginating in Chera desam. do you have proof?? NO!!! It was prevalent in all the Kingdoms. Sangam itself means a mix, and it doesnt require a genius to know that. As for modern tamil, it is heavily telugu influenced by film industries,in medivial times of Naickers and Wodeyars and worst of all the politicians. Lack of education in British times killed old tamil. Now all that they remember is Barathiyar, Kamaraj and Annnadurai!! Thus the classical tamil was killed in Tamil Nadu. Whereas it prevailed in Kerala and Srilanka thanks to a 1000 yr highly educated society featuring legends like aryabhata, Varaha mihir etc. Though partial sanskrit influence remained again due to Shaastras being in pure Sanskrit. ( In one way just like how Buddism died in its mainland but lived in other parts).

      ReplyDelete
    20. Go to Silapathikaram article, you will find the origin of silapathikaram in Tulu Folk Epic Siri paddana. In case if you dont know silpathikaram was composed in chera court.

      Theories of Telugu and Kannada originated later due to sanskrit is bizzaare and funny. For your information, there are many places in Tamil literature itself where Kannada and Telugu are quoted as neighboring languages.

      Let us quote the the Mauryan edict you are talking about

      it says cda pda satyaputo kiraputo,Tambapanni how come cda-become chola, pda -became pandya kiraputo keralaputra. That is the wonderful story spun by Nilakantashastri. This identification is just theory. I find no evidence in that it quotes Chola, Pandya and chera.

      Cholas are offshoots of Pallavas. refer to origin of pallavas article for pallava origin.

      One Advice, if you want to discuss, cut your crap theories.

      ReplyDelete
    21. Thankyou Sudharshan for the links
      I have lot more theories I can demolish

      ReplyDelete
    22. Read your comments, you will know who started aryan theory.

      Sudharshan, you want to live in your hallucinations, I have no problem. May be it is good for you. You have theory for Kumarikandam origin and you have theory for Gujarat origin, both are incompatible. But for you both are true.

      But get out of Casteist mentalities to study proper history.

      ReplyDelete
    23. By the way talking of pallava roots do you realize that Pallava itself means branch or offshoot. Even in tamil it is the same in fact. References say from marriage of chola king Killivalavan with jaffna princess pilli valai a branch of cholas came out. First son's name was Tondai Eelam Thiraiyar from which comes tondaiyar. There goes your another postulate. But wait you are genius i wont say anything....
      PEACE!!! :D:D

      ReplyDelete
    24. Pallava are branch of Chutu Satakarni. There is a inscription in Karnataka about the marriage. Chola king marriage is big myth, with no basis.

      ReplyDelete
    25. Ilam thiriyan means younger thirayan, it does not meen Eelam and does not translate to srilanka. So stop this nonsense. I have come to the conclusion, you dont know anything about Archeology and just quoting what others have quoted. Stop this bullshit theories propagated by christian missionaries. In the whole you have not provided any concrete proof for your theories, It is really waste of time talking to you

      ReplyDelete
    26. Dear modasattva!

      you need not try hard to prove something not interest this nation, because, nearly 80% of the indian population has unique DNA named Hapla D and sub group. So it is clear if you are not coming under this mean, you are not a indian origin, may be of europe or chinese!. Particularly, dalit and brahmin DNA goes along! find out what is behind it, it is really interesting! am i right?

      ReplyDelete
    27. Ha Ha Ha , I am not Indian Origin. When you cant digest the message, Attack the messenger. I get it . You have nothing to prove otherwise.

      I am working on a article on DNA of Indians, Wait for the article.

      ReplyDelete
    28. Interesting facts and arguments. Do you mind if I post this article in my blog? Thanks and by the way its a work well done!

      ReplyDelete
    29. I dont mind, give a link back to this blog

      ReplyDelete
    30. hey dude i apperieciete your confidence in u r arguemeny but u see if u say that cholas were not tamils u might be right but do u have any concreate proof if u say that they are not tamils u might have come across some books,websites and say just like others but the fact is no one has the real evidence such as manuscripts i am sure u know the meanings of manuscript so get show us some thing like that ok

      ReplyDelete
    31. Look Micheal,
      If I don't agree with you, it does not mean I am Wrong. Whatever evidence I have, I have presented and my inference is based on that, if you don't believe that is up to you. What is real evidence? is the question. What is acceptable to the other person is another question.

      From the earliest historical chola, that is Vijayalaya chola, give me one who called himself tamil.

      ReplyDelete
    32. ya now also you can many telugu people are living in and around tanjore region..you know the great tyagaraja who belongs to telugu brahmin family..but he was born and brought up in tanjore..so its obvious that they all belong to andhra,,they ruled over there,not only that even pallavas were ruled by andhra people,generally its nature of anyone that they will not accept the truth if they dont like it...

      ReplyDelete
    33. 1. Chola coins have been excavated in tamil nadu which belongs to 200BC.
      2. Tigers are not present in chola country. How do you say it. There are tigers in south india. It could be that there was forest once in chola country and it could have been destroyed. Tiger have been mentioned in many tamil pro-verbs.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. If there are chola coins, what are they look like, what are the symbols on them, What is the metal composition, How do you know they are chola coins and more importantly how do you, they are not fake.

        If they are genuine, why ASI has not attested them. Why don't the history scholars use to coins for chronology. How do you say they are 200BC , not 2000AD.

        Show me where tigers are mentioned to be living in Tamil nadu in Tamil Literature. Your theory is just speculation.

        Delete
    34. cholas belongs to yadav community they are brave yadav rulers

      ReplyDelete
    35. Hello My friend, I just got to visit this site as recommended from a friend of mine. I just have one question, have you read Kallar Sarithiram written by Na. Mu. Venkatasamy Nattar?

      In that book, he has analyzed all those questions of Cholas being Telugu's /Bengali's/Kannadiga's and even Kalabirar's extensively. Rather than writing a detailed reply I believe that book has all the answers as a professional research scholar for each and every claim that you make. Because Nilakanda Sasthri or any other scholars for that reason hasnt analyzed the Chola history in a context as done Mr.Nattar. Though I have no intention to write a detailed reply and argue with you, because these kind of stuffs are found through out the web without any proper proof(including the Wikipedia). I strongly recommend you to read Kallar Charitiram by Nattar. Its not like I won't accept things simply if it questions the golden hertiage of tamils, I will really welcome any controversies if they are true and in this case I'm sure you haven't even justified most of your claims and I really have answer to every one of your claim, but I think it will be simple if you just read Kallar Sarithiram.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Have you heard about Kodumbalur Capital of Irukkuvelir Chiefs, There is kannada Inscription linking with Kogali(Kalamukha Cult), in Nolamba area of Karnataka. The Cholas are related to Irukkuvelir and preceded Vijayalaya Chola. So they may be Kannada. Infact Velir refers to Chalukyas.

        The Cholas are most probably Telugus because the Telugu Chodas precede Chola line in Tamil nadu. Both of them are falling over heals to give their daughters to Vengi Chalukyas, the lord of Telugu country.

        If we see the line of origin of tribals, you can see that particular tribes trace their origin to bengal.

        Kalabhras are myth. Even if they are true they are from outside.


        Whichever of the above is true. Cholas are not tamils.

        Delete
      2. The Wikipedia can never be authority on anything Tamil or related to Tamil. Because the type of vandalism that Tamils undertake.

        Delete
    36. http://tigertribe.net/tigers-origin/tiger-history-in-india/

      Chola Coin Inscribed with a symbol of Tiger, your answer on this

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Where is the answer?
        Where is tiger in Tamil Nadu?

        Delete
    37. Dear all,

      There is no need to fight. Language is not an issue. The Cholas, Chalukyas, Pallavas, Pandyas, Cheras and the the Sinhalas intermarried. We still have castes which are common to all these and in fact common to the Rajputs of Rjasthan too. We have the descendants of the dynasties. Read Alf Hiltebeitel's book Rethinking Draupadi Cult the Chapter titled "Fire Origin Myth". All of you would infer that language was not all for them. They had different commonality. It is interesting to find people prescribe biased caste histories. Best wishes and happy reading. Think without biases and think well, read well and research well to reach the right conclusions and if you find more information revise your conclusions to accommodate the new information. For presence of Tigers in Chola Country, kindly consult Forest Department. Until a couple of decades ago Tigers were hunted down even near Chennai.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Tell these sayings to tamils, when they are on path of demonising other languages, saying Tamil alone is great.

        Alf Hiltebeitel gives new twist to Mahabharata to save Aryan Invasion Theory from extinction. Why are you quoting him, I can't Understand. There is plenty of Indian Scholars working on oral traditions of Ramayana and Mahabharata without any prejudices and biases. Why not quote them.

        As far as caste histories. Most of the people come to this article trying to find caste of cholas. Then after reading the article suddenly they become tamils. Comm'on

        Coming to cholas, There is no Tigers in traditonal chola country(Uraiyur, Thanjai, Kaveripattinam etc). Not now, neither in Tamil literature, enlighten me if they are there.

        There is Telugu Chodas ruling in Andhra, There are tigers there. The Mutturaiyas who ruled chola country before cholas are Telugu's. Tamil Cholas are related to them. So the Cholas brought their flags with them from Andhra.

        Delete
      2. It is true Cholas(chodas), Mutturaiyas are of Telugu origin, the name of Pidugu of Muthurasa is telugu. The myth of Tamil cholas is a clear build up by Kalki and other fiction writers, pity is Tamils declare that as History.
        There may be more than 60% telugu speaking people in present day Tamilnadu, (just take the Jati list and check, you will find more than 60% castes are with Telugu or Kannada mother tongue). But if you see census data of Tamilnadu they will say other languages 10%!!
        What ever the Tamil claim as their achievement from Agriculture, to Art are all not theirs!!
        Most of the irrigation systems in Tamilnadu are from Pallava, Choda, Naik times
        From Rock cut temples, Bharathanatiyam (dhasi atta), Karnatic! music, Madurai temple, for that matter the emblem Srivalliputtur Gopuram is not build by them!!.
        The original tamil country may be the south of tirunelveli, only after the British made the Madras big, these people came north.
        Even the biggest caste in numbers(they claim!!) the vanniyars are not present in Tamilnadu alone, I have seen most of the Coromandal and upto orrisa Vanniyar are present as fishermen and they speak Telugu!!
        Many more Tamil myths(created and repeated) in History, Social, Language and even political fields are to be corrected and matter of fact must be stated and spread. Even most of the Telugu people living in present day Tamilnadu believe this myths and spread (Vaiko!)
        All the best for you research

        Delete
    38. cholas are relatives to velirs cholas are are sibi and manu king lineage its true sibi king is chandravanshi Shibi was the son of Usinara a famous king of Chandravansh (Lunar dynasty). He was renowned for his liberality and unselfishness and is said to have saved Agni (transformed into a dove) from Indra(transformed into a hawk) by offering his own flesh.

      His lineage is traced from Vishnu in the following order

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. post 10th century everybody connects with solar and lunar dyansty, Go to Myth of Rajput origin article

        Delete
    39. karikala chola told himself as irugovel is his brother so cholas and velirs are relatives so velir caste is chola caste

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Karikalan tells, he is brother of Irungovel, Where? I want to know, because Irungovel dynasty is post 10th century AD. If Karikalan says irungovel, then he is also that period. Date of karikala is fully established

        Delete
    40. malaimayans are descends of sisubalan and heiheya lineage they also relatives to cholas sisubalan lineage and then velirs and cholas also relatives they marry chola princess and chola also marry velir princess they all are almost same lineage

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Heiheya are Kalachuri another karnatic dynasty, which went north. Now Kalachuri meaning is different, but kalachuri can be translated to Karikalan (uri -> kari) . We have already seen that the Telugu chodas are from the region near where kalachuri ruled, from where cholas come. When they refer to Karikalan, they may be referring to Kalachuri

        I have already given etymology of velir and they are from Kuntala. Malaiyaman dyansty is post 10th century AD.

        Delete
    41. To support what Moda Sattva is talking about, I have a proof that shows probably chola's were descendant of Bengal.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Uttama_coin.png

      ReplyDelete
    42. Tamils are only good telling lies, they have no interest in learning true history rather would love live in falsehood.

      ReplyDelete
    43. Pattina palai a sangam(1st century) litreature speaks about Karikala cholan ,not other language speaks about him also all inscriptions made by cholas are only in tamil not in Telugu or kannada or malayalam, enough to prove that they are tamils.Tamil litreature on Lord Shiva "Thevaram" sung before 200 years before birth of Vijayalaya Cholan also mentions chola kings.

      ReplyDelete
      Replies
      1. Pattina Palai of Sangam Literature (1st Century AD)
        Got to Myth of Tamil Sangam Article
        http://controversialhistory.blogspot.com/2007/06/myth-of-tamil-sangams.html

        Any ruler who ruled tamil nadu have inscriptions in Tamil. No Surprise there.

        Devaram 200 years before Vijayalaya Chola ?
        Got to Date of
        Devaram Trio Article
        http://controversialhistory.blogspot.in/2013/10/date-of-devaram-thevaram-trio.html

        Delete
      2. I didn't understand what you come to say. Did you really come to say Appar, Gnana sampathanar lived in 12th century?

        Delete
      3. Yes go to date of devaram Trio Article

        Delete
    44. It is sad to see caste being brought into history, please keep the castes aside and cherish the history of our country!

      ReplyDelete
    45. Dear Modasatva,
      You have a wonderful grip on history and archeology. Hats off! I am writing about the history of padmanayaka velamas and ransacking all the sources for this purpose. The words velir, velama, vellal and vel are so ubiquituos in south Indian history. I also got the link to Muturasa, mutrasi and Mudhiraj- these people are BCs in AP/Telengana but they are great fighters and loyal people. All along whole South India was ruled by Telugu''s right from Sathavahan empire. Tamilians will never accept this. Telugus have given them everything, but they will never accept that. God bless them. You may contact me at mohanrao10@gmail.com Big thanks to your learning and erudition!

      ReplyDelete

    All comments to this blog are subject to moderation, and may appear at sole discretion of blog editor, if found to add relevance to the Posts